By Vicky Verma
David Grusch, a key figure in the UFO mystery, has participated in consecutive interviews with mainstream media regarding the concealment of UFO information. Grusch has gained prominence following the July 2023 US Congress UAP hearings, thanks to his compelling and assertive testimony about non-human intelligence. He is consistently claiming we have alien crafts in double digits and also possess non-human biologics which implies Earth is in contact with or aware of species from other planets.
With each passing day, David Grusch is making efforts to reach a larger audience and share his story. This drew him to former Fox News host Tucker Carlson, a prominent figure in American media. Carlson, with over 10.9 million followers on Elon Musk’s X (formerly named Twitter), did a bombshell interview with Grusch published on December 14, 2023.
On X, Tucker Carlson posted this 66-minute interview with Grusch with the caption: “It’s becoming obvious that the US government has made contact with nonhuman beings.”
Grusch told Tucker that the U.S. government has retrieved “biologics” (bodies) from crashed UFO sites. When asked about the nature of these biologics, Grusch states that they are “non-human.” He emphasizes that this assessment comes from individuals with direct knowledge who are still part of the program. Grusch also mentions the existence of documentary evidence but suggests that details would need to be discussed in a secure location called a SCIF (Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility).
Tucker expresses surprise at Grusch’s sudden public involvement in the UFO topic, given his extensive background in military intelligence. Grusch recounts how he first became interested in the topic after seeing a New York Times article in 2017 about Lou Elizondo and programs like AATIP and AWASAP. Tucker notes that the government never confirmed or denied Elizondo’s involvement, to which Grusch clarified that he knew about Elizondo’s role. He recalls hearing that Elizondo was considered somewhat erratic by some officials. Grusch’s curiosity deepened when he saw news reports about Elizondo’s involvement in a UFO program, leading him to realize that the program was indeed real.
Grusch explains that it was a unique experience during his time in UAP task force because he started uncovering disturbing facts. He had access to classified archives from previous UFO programs and came across foreign intelligence gathered by clandestine human sources overseas. These sources, according to him, noted that the U.S. had a retrieval and reverse engineering program for UFOs. Notably, these assessments were from other countries.
Tucker questions Grusch about how the Pentagon, an entity that serves elected officials, could deny an elected official access to information. He emphasizes that the Pentagon works for politicians who are accountable to the people and compares Pentagon employees to household staff, highlighting that they’re not an independent entity.
Grsuch acknowledged the issue and pointed out that this is one of the reasons he decided to blow the whistle. He explains that even in the normal black Special Access Program (SAP) community, elected leaders are treated as second-class citizens. He mentions instances where reporting is waived, and Deputy Secretaries of Defense (Dep SecDef) can sign orders limiting briefings to certain committees.
“I can sign an order saying we’re not going to fully brief certain committees on, you see, on programs that are in Public Law 10 US Code Section 119, and that is congressional oversight of SAPS, is the title of that part of Public Law. But the department, which I find in retrospect, very weird, where the legislators authorize and appropriate these programs, but they’re not afforded full access. And occasionally the Gang of Eight will get those kinds of briefings. But literally, they could withhold, besides notifying a program that stood up the entire Congress, that we’re doing some kind of clandestine activity.”
Grsuch mentioned there are approximately 40 people, many with firsthand knowledge, some at the same level as Harry Reid. He explains that after realizing the reality of the situation, he and his team conducted interviews with individuals who had privileged information, even comparable to a high-ranking figure like Harry Reid.
Grsuch recounts a conversation with Harry Reid, where the former senator expressed deep concern about the topic. Reid, then planning to discuss it with President Biden, highlighted the challenges even someone of his stature faced in accessing information. David Grusch emphasizes that past administrations had varying levels of knowledge about these programs, and even presidents were not always briefed on all aspects.
When Tucker specifically asks about any connection between the secrecy surrounding the Manhattan Project (which developed nuclear weapons) and UFO programs, Grusch clarifies that there isn’t an overt connection. However, he speculates that the development of nuclear weapons might have sparked interest in unidentified objects.
David Grusch mentions that he can’t discuss many retrievals, and the only one he has publicly mentioned is the 1933 Italian event. He chose this event to highlight that the UFO phenomenon is not exclusive to the United States but is a worldwide issue.
Grusch explains that the Italian event involved the recovery of an object that looked like an acorn in Magenta, Italy, by the Axis powers (Italy and Germany) in 1933. He notes that information about this event surfaced in the early 2000s through Italian researchers who uncovered documents sent by Mussolini to the Gestapo.
According to a senior intelligence officer who briefed him, the recovered object resembled a lenticular disc, but the edges broke off when it hit the Earth, giving it an acorn or bell shape. The Italians kept custody of the artifact until the end of the war, and then the Americans recovered it. He adds that the Vatican and the OSS (Office of Strategic Services) communicated with FDR about the crash. Grusch said the 1933 Italian event is the only one he has cleared through DoD security.
Tucker questions Grusch about the timeline of the U.S. government’s knowledge of UFOs, pointing out that David mentioned the government didn’t take custody until the end of the war. David clarifies that this statement specifically refers to a particular case, but the government was aware of the UFO issue in the 1930s.
Tucker then raises a common question: Why do advanced technologies like UFOs crash so often? Grusch suggests that crashes may not necessarily be intentional. He introduces the concept of von Neumann replicating probes, where advanced civilizations might send throwaway probes that could crash accidentally. Grusch emphasizes that this is not just his theory but something discussed by scientists involved in the program.
Tucker follows up by questioning whether these objects truly come from a far distance. Grusch admits the uncertainty, highlighting that even certain directors of government agencies prefer using the term “extraterrestrial.” However, he leans towards the term NHI, meaning non-human intelligence. He notes that this term is also used in the Schumer amendment called the UAP Disclosure Act of 2023. The act is part of the fiscal year 2024 National Defense Authorization Act and is currently in conference. He underscores that he’s not the only one using terms like “non-human intelligence biologics” and points out that influential figures like Chuck Schumer are pushing for transparency in the matter.
Tucker questions why there is so much secrecy, and David suggests that excessive secrecy hinders national security. He draws a parallel with nuclear physics, explaining that while details about building nuclear weapons are classified, the broader study of nuclear physics is open to the public. David advocates for a similar approach to UFOs, where the subject should be “horizontally protected,” allowing broad academic study and public access to information, with only genuinely dangerous or classified aspects kept confidential. This way, he believes 95% of the subject could be open for study worldwide.
Tucker asks David about the truth behind these abduction claims. David responds by saying that he doesn’t have any first-hand knowledge on the phenomenon of abduction. He notes that, during his interviews, none of the individuals he spoke with had direct experience or knowledge about abductions.
“I don’t know. Nobody I interviewed had any firsthand knowledge of that phenomenon. I certainly believe people have experienced things like that. At least they believe it, because you look at Dr. John Mack, who was a Harvard-trained psychologist and psychiatrist. He examined the phenomenon of abduction in the early 2000s before his death and affirmed that the people he psychoanalyzed certainly experienced something real to them. But what is the abduction phenomenon? I really don’t know. I’m not sure.”
David Grusch tells Tucker Carlson about Rep. Mike Turner’s efforts to block the UAP Disclosure Act and destroy Tim Burchett’s career “Mike Rogers & Mike Turner, two of the dumbest people in Washington. Pure tools of the national security state.” Additionally on Newnation, he said, “Mike Turner probably has no business being the (House Intelligence Committee) Chairman… Mike Turner has never been an intelligence officer. He’s never served in the military.” “We need to get these people out of office.”
Physical Harm
Tucker raises a sensitive issue about the potential harm or killing of individuals connected to the U.S. government’s UFO programs. He specifically asks Grusch if he has reason to believe that the government has hurt or killed anyone, particularly American citizens, in connection to these programs.
Grusch responds by acknowledging concerns that were raised by individuals who approached him, expressing worries about potential harm. He emphasizes that he took these concerns seriously and reported them to the Inspector General of the intelligence community, directing the individuals to law enforcement.
Tucker pushes further, specifically mentioning the allegation of murder, to which Grusch confirms that the concerns included both murder and physical harm. However, he refrains from providing specific details due to the ongoing investigation and potential risks to his safety.
Grusch discloses that he felt his life was in jeopardy, and he reported the threats and surveillance to a counterintelligence element and law enforcement. He reveals that these threats not only affected him but also impacted his wife. He states that he doesn’t know the identity of those involved, ruling out the possibility of it being a foreign entity.
Previously on the Joe Rogan Experience, Grusch talked about the fundamental questions related to UFOs, such as the existence of extraterrestrial life and the nature of human consciousness. Grusch asserted with confidence, based on conversations with high-level individuals like Harry Reid, that we are not alone, and the UFO phenomenon is real.
“You know for humanity. Are we alone or you know what happens when we die? Well, I don’t know about that, but are we alone? Well, the answer is we’re not alone. And I know that with 100% certainty, which as an Intel officer, you never say 100%, but all things pointed towards based on the people I talked to…The phenomenon is real. It’s been going on for thousands of years. People have been seeing strange things and not everybody’s mass hallucinating. So that’s kind of my long diatribe about what’s happening.”
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